As the world grapples with various health challenges, a new concern has emerged for Queensland residents.

A cluster of ten linked monkeypox cases has been identified, marking the largest recorded cluster in the state to date.

This development has prompted swift action from health authorities, with contact tracing efforts in full swing to prevent further spread.

The cluster, separate from an earlier outbreak in Victoria, has raised questions and concerns among the community.

Queensland Health has been actively notifying the public of the locally acquired cases of monkeypox, now referred to as mpox, as of 30 May.

Queensland Health has detected 10 cases of Monkeypox in Victoria. Credit: Shutterstock

Mpox is a viral disease that spreads through close contact with an infected person's skin lesions, body fluids, respiratory droplets, or contaminated items such as bedding or clothing.

While it can present as a mild illness with flu-like symptoms such as fever, headache, and swollen lymph nodes, it's the distinctive rash that often raises alarm.

This rash typically appears on the face one to three days after the onset of fever and can spread to other parts of the body.

The first case of mpox was reported in Australia in May 2022, and since then, the World Health Organisation has declared the outbreak a public health emergency of international concern.

On 28 July 2022, Australia's Chief Medical Officer followed suit, declaring monkeypox a communicable disease incident of national significance.

Victoria had confirmed 16 cases of mpox since 18 April, 13 of which were locally acquired.

‘All cases are currently linked, and contact tracing is underway by public health units,’ a spokesperson for Queensland Health said.

‘Anyone who has been in contact with someone with mpox should contact their local public health unit and monitor for symptoms for 21 days.’

Queensland Health added that high-risk groups such as sex workers are eligible for free vaccines through sexual health clinics and GPs.

‘Government-funded Mpox vaccine is available to people at greater risk of Mpox infection through sexual health clinics and some GPs,’ a spokesperson said.

‘Two doses of vaccine are needed for optimal protection, and vaccination reduces the risk of infection and severe disease.’

You can check the list of Queensland Mpox vaccine centres here.

Key Takeaways

• Queensland Health has reported a cluster of ten linked cases of monkeypox, making it the largest cluster recorded in the state.
• Contact tracing is underway, and those who have been in contact with an infected individual are urged to monitor for symptoms for 21 days.
• High-risk groups, including sex workers in Queensland, have access to free vaccines for monkeypox, which require two doses for optimal protection.
• Monkeypox can spread through close contact and presents symptoms similar to influenza, followed by a rash that starts on the face and can spread to other body parts.

Have you or someone you know been affected by the mpox outbreak? Share your experiences and tips for staying healthy in the comments below.

 

[Gabriella Pettit]

I'm not surprised because other countries don't immunize the people I think there should be some kind of test before entering Australia from any where in the world.

 

[Ingot]

Well said @ JimmyFlatrock

This is my position from now on:-
.

…Don’t argue with the Donkey

The Donkey said to the Tiger: “The grass is blue.” The Tiger replies: “No, the grass is green.” Their discussion

www.storyofsouls.com

.
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (wrongly attributed to Mark Twain ... but I'll run with it.)

Education is the province of the wise.
PS - Obviously I have a way to go yet, but also obviously, some things are obvious

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

Well said @ JimmyFlatrock

This is my position from now on:-
.

…Don’t argue with the Donkey

The Donkey said to the Tiger: “The grass is blue.” The Tiger replies: “No, the grass is green.” Their discussion

www.storyofsouls.com

.
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (wrongly attributed to Mark Twain ... but I'll run with it.)

Education is the province of the wise.
PS - Obviously I have a way to go yet, but also obviously, some things are obvious

Interesting story Ingot, and I think not an unreasonable position to take in some instances.

And yes, there is no evidence that Samuel Clemens ever said that.

The lion was right about the donkey and probably a fair comment made to the tiger, by the lion as well, given the simplicity of the fact check. Silence, or a long 'pregnant pause' used with good timing can be a powerful and telling force in an engagement that is going nowhere. Silence may also introduce a calming effect all round as it's difficult to argue with nothing.

However, I think sometimes it's reasonable to check out the depths of the perceived idiot where the discussion is a little more complex (than what the donkey or tiger were saying) or moving around a bit. So I believe there is some merit in plumbing the depths to see if the stupidity is genuine and deeply entrenched or maybe it's just an initial wrong perception and the other party could be, for example, a contrarian with a reasonable idea or thought that just goes against the popular.

That or the donkey may just have been colour-blind and not an idiot at all. Just different.

It is great to learn new things. Education is a lifelong journey that shouldn't stop. Just because one is old doesn't mean you are in a position to no longer ask questions or be curious. "Millions saw the apple fall, only Newton asked why" - Bernaud Baruch

 

[Ingot]

Interesting story Ingot, and I think not an unreasonable position to take in some instances.

And yes, there is no evidence that Samuel Clemens ever said that.

The lion was right about the donkey and probably a fair comment made to the tiger, by the lion as well, given the simplicity of the fact check. Silence, or a long 'pregnant pause' used with good timing can be a powerful and telling force in an engagement that is going nowhere. Silence may also introduce a calming effect all round as it's difficult to argue with nothing.

However, I think sometimes it's reasonable to check out the depths of the perceived idiot where the discussion is a little more complex (than what the donkey or tiger were saying) or moving around a bit. So I believe there is some merit in plumbing the depths to see if the stupidity is genuine and deeply entrenched or maybe it's just an initial wrong perception and the other party could be, for example, a contrarian with a reasonable idea or thought that just goes against the popular.

That or the donkey may just have been colour-blind and not an idiot at all. Just different.

It is great to learn new things. Education is a lifelong journey that shouldn't stop. Just because one is old doesn't mean you are in a position to no longer ask questions or be curious. "Millions saw the apple fall, only Newton asked why" - Bernaud Baruch

You are right to introduce a little temperance to this discussion.
I truly do not think for a moment that @Rob44 is lacking in intelligence or education.
To the contrary - he mounts a good anecdotal argument.
On another day, I can see myself joining forces with him in other robust discussions yet to be had on other topics.

My choices have to do with this: "What should I do with government misinformation?"
eg early on, the former Minister for Health Greg Hunt stated that "there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission."

There was also NO EVIDENCE OF LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS OF AN EXPERIMENTAL VACCINE. Yet the EUA became law, and the Army and police treated resisting people like animals.

In trying to make sense of these things, I decided that the govt was acting like the head sales team for the vaccine manufacturers, and their refusal to allow discussion and debate, along with the deplatforming of revered professionals whose field it was to know and understand virology and immunology, was a little too totalitarian for the average Australian, of whom I like to think I am one.

I am unsure whether reports of Aboriginal people in NT Communities were manhandled and forcibly vaccinated or not. I was not there, but there were some disturbing reports of human rights abuses by the military on those Communities.

I was watching this unfold moment by moment late January 2020, and still Australia refused to shut the borders to Chinese travellers. I was almost screaming at the News stories, to beg them to do so, yet I ended in believing they actually WANTED Covid here.

Then the Lockdowns.
Remember "Only for 14 days, and then the virus will be stopped."
"14 days to freedom." Luckily the people in Victoria can't count to 14 ... or can they?
Why didn't they revolt en masse?
Had they done that, the game would be up.

Then came the extensions of time: then the incarcerations in hired accommodation, where more people caught Covid than they would have if allowed home to spend 14 days quarantine.

Then the mandates, at a time it was already known the Vaccines did NOT prevent transmission. There was cruelty by govt. Remember Premier Palaszczuk turning back (at the border) a NSW woman about to deliver at-risk twins? One twin ultimately died.

So many stories: heartbreak when terminally ill people died alone, with close family prohibited from visiting. Heaps more.

Trust in government was, and still is destroyed - at least for me (not that I had any to begin with.)

My intention was not to contend personally with the dissident member, but with the facts presented.

 

[Rob44]

Please point to where anyone here did "rabbit on" about conspiracy theories concerning vaccines.
As far as I know, mRNA is NOT a vaccine ... it is a technology.

It is still experimental, and will remain so for 20 years, when we will be seeing the children of vaccinees begin to have children of their own.

I was called "selfish" and vilified elsewhere, for saying I would take "other measures" to protect myself from Covid harm.
People foolishly said I would spread it to others "because I was not vaccinated."
That was the "science du jour" but actually ridiculous, since the Covid vax did not prevent anything.

My wife and I both got covid, and both got over it within days. Our Vitamin D3 levels ensured we would be in the cohort that did not suffer fatal effects.
Vit D3 levels are PROVEN to be a critically protective factor.

That is science.
That is not conspiracy.

Since the cohort suffering the highest Covid mortality was in the 80yrs+ group, (notwithstanding those in other age groups who died had co-morbidities) it remains that the risks could not possibly outweigh any benefits, for anyone in any other age group.
It was naughty to be attempting to vaccinate children - indeed anyone as it turns out, since it offered no protection against transmission or susceptibility.

Therefore those who died or suffered serious side-effects of the vax, did so unnecessarily.
The vax could not possibly have helped them from catching or dying from Covid.

These things are now admitted and confirmed byt the manufacturers themselves, in court.

In the wash-up, SARS-CoV-2 was only dangerous to the elderly and/or infirm - strangely coincidental to the mortality suffered by this cohort, from seasonal flu.
And - strangely enough - influenza as a cause of mortality, disappeared in the Covid Pandemic years.

The mRNA vaccines did not affect those outcomes positively.

We have always had Coronavirus causes of respiratory malaise.
The Covid-19 strain was super-infective - agreed.

Now, I am expecting your comeback ... but really am not interested.

I would like to get back to the topic of the thread, if that pleases you.

My comeback is simple. A healthy diet with adequate vitamins helps prevent/reduce a great many ills and if that minimises Covid-19, and indeed monkeypox problems, all to the good. As for the rest, I'll stick with the findings of the TGA in regard to what it has said about people having had adverse affects from the assorted Covid-19 vaccinations. None of us here are qualified to do our own epidemiological research. Suffice it to say that the then Australian governments, State and Federal acted in a remarkably uncoordinated manner in their dealings with a virus to which none of us had natural immunity. Tasmania, being an island, did brilliantly as that is a small island with a small population and yet still threw way the gains in favour of the tourist industry and in particular the Ashes cricket match.

C-19 won't be the only such virus which jumps from animals to humans in the coming decades and I would hope that our assorted governments will learn from the C19-experience and that technologies to build vaccines quickly will continue to improve.

As for Newton and the apple. He got it wrong. The entire universe, including himself, moved upwards past the apple. Had he realised that, he would written about relativity 200 years before Einstein became a gleam in his father's eye

 

[Ingot]

My comeback is simple. A healthy diet with adequate vitamins helps prevent/reduce a great many ills and if that minimises Covid-19, and indeed monkeypox problems, all to the good. As for the rest, I'll stick with the findings of the TGA in regard to what it has said about people having had adverse affects from the assorted Covid-19 vaccinations. None of us here are qualified to do our own epidemiological research. Suffice it to say that the then Australian governments, State and Federal acted in a remarkably uncoordinated manner in their dealings with a virus to which none of us had natural immunity. Tasmania, being an island, did brilliantly as that is a small island with a small population and yet still threw way the gains in favour of the tourist industry and in particular the Ashes cricket match.

C-19 won't be the only such virus which jumps from animals to humans in the coming decades and I would hope that our assorted governments will learn from the C19-experience and that technologies to build vaccines quickly will continue to improve.

As for Newton and the apple. He got it wrong. The entire universe, including himself, moved upwards past the apple. Had he realised that, he would written about relativity 200 years before Einstein became a gleam in his father's eye

Why trust the TGA, Rob?
They take their funding from the people they are paid to police.
Like asking the foxes to do a stock take in the henhouse!
I cannot vouch for this next attached article - it could be one of those conspiracy memes:

Japanese Leader Apologizes to the Unvaccinated: ‘You Were Right, Vaccines Are Killing Millions of Our Loved Ones’

Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population.

thepeoplesvoice.tv

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

My comeback is simple. A healthy diet with adequate vitamins helps prevent/reduce a great many ills and if that minimises Covid-19, and indeed monkeypox problems, all to the good. As for the rest, I'll stick with the findings of the TGA in regard to what it has said about people having had adverse affects from the assorted Covid-19 vaccinations. None of us here are qualified to do our own epidemiological research. Suffice it to say that the then Australian governments, State and Federal acted in a remarkably uncoordinated manner in their dealings with a virus to which none of us had natural immunity. Tasmania, being an island, did brilliantly as that is a small island with a small population and yet still threw way the gains in favour of the tourist industry and in particular the Ashes cricket match.

C-19 won't be the only such virus which jumps from animals to humans in the coming decades and I would hope that our assorted governments will learn from the C19-experience and that technologies to build vaccines quickly will continue to improve.

As for Newton and the apple. He got it wrong. The entire universe, including himself, moved upwards past the apple. Had he realised that, he would written about relativity 200 years before Einstein became a gleam in his father's eye

"As for Newton and the apple. He got it wrong. The entire universe, including himself, moved upwards past the apple. Had he realised that, he would written about relativity 200 years before Einstein became a gleam in his father's eye"

Hahaha. Noice one.
Point was, he was curious, he asked the question and had a crack at the answer.
Curiosity is the very basis of education, and if you tell me that curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly.” — Arnold Edinborough

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

Spot on.
It did NOT stop the spread of Covid from person to person.
It did NOT prevent people from getting Covid.
It simply did NOT fill the criteria needed to be calling it a Vaccine.

Yes it did kill people - my own mother died after an Astrazeneca booster on 17th Dec 2022.
It also killed people's relationships (and still causing angst eg here now).

People lost homes, cars, took kids out of boarding schools and shut down their businesses.
It destroyed people's careers (mine) in police,teaching, health, paramedics and nursing, doctors, airline pilots and more.
It maimed healthy young men (Myocarditis) and killed people randomly from that condition.

Non of this is now disputed by the CDC.
Drug companies have been dragged kicking and screaming to admit they did NOT do the testing they claimed.

And the "vaccines" are STILL being mandated (oh, not in so many words, but is written into workplace agreements now as "condition of employment.")

I do not give a rat's who disagrees with the above - it is fact.
So pointless attempting to refute anything said.

"It simply did NOT fill the criteria needed to be calling it a Vaccine."

As one who has had the full serve of what I believed to be vaccinations against Covid-19, I must say your above statement gave me cause for concern as I believed the injections would afford some protections.

So, Ingot, if I may question this particular line of thought you have put up here as I have found research suggesting otherwise regarding the criteria that defines a vaccine and how the mRNA (Pfizer-BioNTech) and adenovirus vector (AstraZeneca) vaccines align with these criteria:

There is a bit in dot point 1 that looks beyond my level of education, but in the main I can understand what is being said.

Definition of a Vaccine:

1. • A vaccine is a biological preparation administered to stimulate the body’s immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.
   • It can be:
     • An antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or weakened pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin).
     • A preparation of genetic material (such as synthesized messenger RNA) used by the body’s cells to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of a virus spike protein)1.
2. Efficacy and Prevention:
   • While both mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines may not completely stop the spread of COVID-19 or prevent all infections, they significantly reduce the risk of severe illness, hospitalization, and death.
   • Their primary goal is to stimulate immunity and provide protection against severe outcomes.
3. Collective Protection:
   • Vaccination benefits the community by reducing overall transmission and lowering the burden on healthcare systems.
   • Even if vaccinated individuals can still get infected, their cases are often milder due to the immune response triggered by the vaccine.
4. Risk-Benefit Balance:
   • Vaccines are evaluated based on their risk-benefit profile.
   • The benefits of vaccination include individual protection and community immunity.

In summary, while vaccines may not completely prevent all infections, they still fulfill the criteria of stimulating immunity and providing protection. Their role extends beyond individual prevention to collective health and safety.

So, notwithstanding your assertions here, I still believe it is best to be inoculated, especially with Pfizer which has an early efficacy rate of up to 95% effectiveness in preventing Covid-19.

What I found, also gives me confidence in knowing I'm am doing what's best for my immuno-compromised partner, myself and it seems the community at large.

 

[Rob44]

"Why trust the TGA, Rob?"

Why trust anything ever written or said by anyone? The Bible isn't exactly gospel, if you get my drift. However, I trust my cat when it indicates it is hungry, although sometimes it isn't. I have attached an interesting graph from the World Data Centre; applies to the USA . It seems that the deaths amongst the unvaccinated of the USA has reduced since the massive spike around Xmas 2021, although it does not indicate how many unvaccinated became frightened into getting vacccinated as a result of that large spike of deaths from C19 and thus did not die. I would have liked to see a graph indicating how many became vaccinated and when.

Looking at some EU statistics, 911.83 million vaccinations as per numbers published very recently. The majority being the mRNA vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer . Astra-Zeneca vaccines went to about 68 million. I have copied and pasted below a bit of information from the European Parliament. One could then follow this by checking how many had pre-existing assorted conditions that were also implicated in these deaths.

To all who ave commented; thanks for stimulating my curiosity, and long may I die nobly.

Question for written answer E-001201/2023
to the Commission
Rule 138
Virginie Joron (ID)


The European Medicines Agency (EMA) reported that 11 448 people have died in the EU following COVID-19 vaccines[1],

8 368 following Pfizer BioNTech vaccinations (which is 1 345 more deaths in 2022).

1 579 following AstraZeneca vaccinations.

1 161 following Moderna vaccinations.

339 following Janssen vaccinations.

1 following Nuvaxovid vaccinations.

0 following (inactivated, adjuvanted) Valneva vaccinations.

As of 10 April 2023, a total of 50 648 deaths caused by ‘COVID vaccines’ had been reported in EudraVigilance – broken down by disease (heart conditions, central nervous system disorders, etc.). Why then, in the EMA’s latest report of 8 December 2022, is it stated that only 11 448 deaths were flagged and recorded in the EudraVigilance database?

Submitted: 13.4.2023

• [1] Latest figures published by the EMA on 8 December 2022 (situation as of 23.11.2022 https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/docume...vaccines-safety-update-8-december-2022_en.pdf)
• ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

Why trust the TGA, Rob?
They take their funding from the people they are paid to police.
Like asking the foxes to do a stock take in the henhouse!
I cannot vouch for this next attached article - it could be one of those conspiracy memes:

Japanese Leader Apologizes to the Unvaccinated: ‘You Were Right, Vaccines Are Killing Millions of Our Loved Ones’

Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population.

thepeoplesvoice.tv

Ingot, I reckon you are right not to vouch for the PeoplesChoice article. Doesn't seem to pass the all important test we are familiar with. Not really packed with hard backed up facts.

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

"Why trust the TGA, Rob?"

Why trust anything ever written or said by anyone? The Bible isn't exactly gospel, if you get my drift. However, I trust my cat when it indicates it is hungry, although sometimes it isn't. I have attached an interesting graph from the World Data Centre; applies to the USA . It seems that the deaths amongst the unvaccinated of the USA has reduced since the massive spike around Xmas 2021, although it does not indicate how many unvaccinated became frightened into getting vacccinated as a result of that large spike of deaths from C19 and thus did not die. I would have liked to see a graph indicating how many became vaccinated and when.

Looking at some EU statistics, 911.83 million vaccinations as per numbers published very recently. The majority being the mRNA vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer . Astra-Zeneca vaccines went to about 68 million. I have copied and pasted below a bit of information from the European Parliament. One could then follow this by checking how many had pre-existing assorted conditions that were also implicated in these deaths.

To all who ave commented; thanks for stimulating my curiosity, and long may I die nobly.

Question for written answer E-001201/2023
to the Commission
Rule 138
Virginie Joron (ID)


The European Medicines Agency (EMA) reported that 11 448 people have died in the EU following COVID-19 vaccines[1],

8 368 following Pfizer BioNTech vaccinations (which is 1 345 more deaths in 2022).

1 579 following AstraZeneca vaccinations.

1 161 following Moderna vaccinations.

339 following Janssen vaccinations.

1 following Nuvaxovid vaccinations.

0 following (inactivated, adjuvanted) Valneva vaccinations.

As of 10 April 2023, a total of 50 648 deaths caused by ‘COVID vaccines’ had been reported in EudraVigilance – broken down by disease (heart conditions, central nervous system disorders, etc.). Why then, in the EMA’s latest report of 8 December 2022, is it stated that only 11 448 deaths were flagged and recorded in the EudraVigilance database?

Submitted: 13.4.2023

• [1] Latest figures published by the EMA on 8 December 2022 (situation as of 23.11.2022 https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/docume...vaccines-safety-update-8-december-2022_en.pdf)
• ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 50040

Thanks Rob for taking the trouble. Weird and also a tad curious how I've been thinking about a cat this year whereas for the other 73 (I really can't remember the very early ones) dogs were the only beast-friend for me.

The graph in particular is both sad and telling in the picture it paints. Most it would seem got wise in pretty quick time.

 

[Ingot]

"It simply did NOT fill the criteria needed to be calling it a Vaccine."

As one who has had the full serve of what I believed to be vaccinations against Covid-19, I must say your above statement gave me cause for concern as I believed the injections would afford some protections.

So, Ingot, if I may question this particular line of thought you have put up here as I have found research suggesting otherwise regarding the criteria that defines a vaccine and how the mRNA (Pfizer-BioNTech) and adenovirus vector (AstraZeneca) vaccines align with these criteria:

There is a bit in dot point 1 that looks beyond my level of education, but in the main I can understand what is being said.

Definition of a Vaccine:

1. • A vaccine is a biological preparation administered to stimulate the body’s immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.
   • It can be:
     • An antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or weakened pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin).
     • A preparation of genetic material (such as synthesized messenger RNA) used by the body’s cells to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of a virus spike protein)1.
2. Efficacy and Prevention:
   • While both mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines may not completely stop the spread of COVID-19 or prevent all infections, they significantly reduce the risk of severe illness, hospitalization, and death.
   • Their primary goal is to stimulate immunity and provide protection against severe outcomes.
3. Collective Protection:
   • Vaccination benefits the community by reducing overall transmission and lowering the burden on healthcare systems.
   • Even if vaccinated individuals can still get infected, their cases are often milder due to the immune response triggered by the vaccine.
4. Risk-Benefit Balance:
   • Vaccines are evaluated based on their risk-benefit profile.
   • The benefits of vaccination include individual protection and community immunity.

In summary, while vaccines may not completely prevent all infections, they still fulfill the criteria of stimulating immunity and providing protection. Their role extends beyond individual prevention to collective health and safety.

So, notwithstanding your assertions here, I still believe it is best to be inoculated, especially with Pfizer which has an early efficacy rate of up to 95% effectiveness in preventing Covid-19.

What I found, also gives me confidence in knowing I'm am doing what's best for my immuno-compromised partner, myself and it seems the community at large.

How does one measure the effectiveness of a vaccination?
It is not possible to assert the vaccines were effective, if you cannot measure the difference between vaccinated and non-vaccinated

I could have said: "I had the V and I was only off colour for 7~8 days with Cov.
Then someone says "See ... the V works to reduce the duration and severety of Cov."
Then I reveal I have not been vaxxed at all.
So how does one prove the effectiveness, since it is an individual response thing?
How does one prove the effectiveness, when you know it does not stop infection and it does not stop transmission?

Should not a "proper and effective" vaccine do both ~ stop infection and stop transmission?
I could say I took 2 Paracetamol tabs and that stopped the severity of Cov, but Paracetamol is not a vaccine.

So I go back (with that background behind my question) how does one measure if a vaccine is effective at all? Again, there is no benchmark to compare, since all of us would react differently (ie more or less severely) to Cov infection.

For this reason, the Vaccines as proposed, did not do what was claimed, and I still cannot accept they had any effect whatsoever on Covid, and likely killed or maimed more people than they saved (which was no one at all that can be verified).

We know the seasonal flu takes off our elderly and infirm year after year, but because the Pandemic was one of the Coronavirus variety (of which there are many, and frequently at that) and did the job usually reserved for the Influenza A-B-C or D, there was a panic, when there should have been calm.

More people may have perished with Sars-CoV-2 this time around, but millions die every year from the Influenza Virus too. Bird Flu will kill just as many if it jumps the gap to mammals, but again it will be the elderly and compromised in health who bear the brunt.

Sorry for the tome ... but that's my thinking on it.

Appreciating the discussion - thanks guys.

I think believing something works is a positive thing, and helps with the uncertainty of the outcome. But that in itself is not proof that something is effective.

 

[Rob44]

Just one brief comment. There have been to date 20 known mutations of the C19 virus, most (I think 16 last time I checked) being to the Omicron version. This, in 4 years, works out at about one mutation every 7-8 months, which doesn't seem to give the assorted vaccine companies all that time to make the perfect vaccine for each mutation. And thus some vaccines will be more effective than others. The bug that got me got me just after then new version of Omicron had been recorded as doing the rounds and my previous vaccination had done its 6 months expected work and just before I was due the new vaccine adapted to deal with the latest Omicron bug. An object lesson of what we may expect; leading to notions that no vaccine is any good if reported experiences are not analysed rigorously.

 

[Rob44]

Earwigoagen. H5N1 virus, by University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, June 1, 2024. Extracted from longer article in SciTech Daily today (seriously recommended read for kids and adults; Earth-sized planet discovered in stable orbit round a red-star sun expected to last for considerably longer than our Sun; one wonders if the planet has oceans of water, as then it would habitable. Also does interesting stuff about dinosaurs, quantum computing and research into Alzheimer's disease).

"The Penn researchers developed an mRNA vaccine targeting a specific subtype of the H5N1 virus that is circulating widely in birds and cattle. While it rarely infects humans, some fear that the virus may evolve and cause a human pandemic. The researchers found that the vaccine elicited a strong antibody and T-cell response in mice and ferrets. What’s more, the animals maintained high levels of antibodies even a year after vaccination. Additionally, the researchers found that vaccinated animals who were subsequently infected with H5N1 cleared the virus more rapidly and displayed fewer symptoms than unvaccinated controls. The researchers also note that all of the vaccinated animals survived following H5N1 infection, whereas all the unvaccinated animals died.

Finally, the researchers compared the mRNA vaccine response in mice to their response to a traditional egg-based vaccine and found that the mRNA vaccine was just as effective; both vaccines elicited strong antibody responses, regardless of prior seasonal flu exposures".

Reference to full research article: “Development of a nucleoside-modified mRNA vaccine against clade 2.3.4.4b H5 highly pathogenic avian influenza virus” by Colleen Furey, Gabrielle Scher, Naiqing Ye, Lisa Kercher, Jennifer DeBeauchamp, Jeri Carol Crumpton, Trushar Jeevan, Christopher Patton, John Franks, Adam Rubrum, Mohamad-Gabriel Alameh, Steven H. Y. Fan, Anthony T. Phan, Christopher A. Hunter, Richard J. Webby, Drew Weissman and Scott E. Hensley, 23 May 2024, Nature Communications.
DOI: 10.1038/s41467-024-48555-z

Interesting to see the multi-national authorship.

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

How does one measure the effectiveness of a vaccination?
It is not possible to assert the vaccines were effective, if you cannot measure the difference between vaccinated and non-vaccinated

I could have said: "I had the V and I was only off colour for 7~8 days with Cov.
Then someone says "See ... the V works to reduce the duration and severety of Cov."
Then I reveal I have not been vaxxed at all.
So how does one prove the effectiveness, since it is an individual response thing?
How does one prove the effectiveness, when you know it does not stop infection and it does not stop transmission?

Should not a "proper and effective" vaccine do both ~ stop infection and stop transmission?
I could say I took 2 Paracetamol tabs and that stopped the severity of Cov, but Paracetamol is not a vaccine.

So I go back (with that background behind my question) how does one measure if a vaccine is effective at all? Again, there is no benchmark to compare, since all of us would react differently (ie more or less severely) to Cov infection.

For this reason, the Vaccines as proposed, did not do what was claimed, and I still cannot accept they had any effect whatsoever on Covid, and likely killed or maimed more people than they saved (which was no one at all that can be verified).

We know the seasonal flu takes off our elderly and infirm year after year, but because the Pandemic was one of the Coronavirus variety (of which there are many, and frequently at that) and did the job usually reserved for the Influenza A-B-C or D, there was a panic, when there should have been calm.

More people may have perished with Sars-CoV-2 this time around, but millions die every year from the Influenza Virus too. Bird Flu will kill just as many if it jumps the gap to mammals, but again it will be the elderly and compromised in health who bear the brunt.

Sorry for the tome ... but that's my thinking on it.

Appreciating the discussion - thanks guys.

I think believing something works is a positive thing, and helps with the uncertainty of the outcome. But that in itself is not proof that something is effective.

Ok, I think as long as there are blanket vaccinations available and that meet the accepted definitions and criteria, I will take them, rather than run the risk of not doing so.

Even if the effectiveness levels are doubted by some. If there is a degree of protection and it's my strong belief there is, I will back the vaccine makers based on what vaccinations have been able to achieve historically, and no doubt into the future.

 

[Rob44]

My comeback is simple. A healthy diet with adequate vitamins helps prevent/reduce a great many ills and if that minimises Covid-19, and indeed monkeypox problems, all to the good. As for the rest, I'll stick with the findings of the TGA in regard to what it has said about people having had adverse affects from the assorted Covid-19 vaccinations. None of us here are qualified to do our own epidemiological research. Suffice it to say that the then Australian governments, State and Federal acted in a remarkably uncoordinated manner in their dealings with a virus to which none of us had natural immunity. Tasmania, being an island, did brilliantly as that is a small island with a small population and yet still threw way the gains in favour of the tourist industry and in particular the Ashes cricket match.

C-19 won't be the only such virus which jumps from animals to humans in the coming decades and I would hope that our assorted governments will learn from the C19-experience and that technologies to build vaccines quickly will continue to improve.

As for Newton and the apple. He got it wrong. The entire universe, including himself, moved upwards past the apple. Had he realised that, he would written about relativity 200 years before Einstein became a gleam in his father's eye

When the Universe moved past the apple it would have had huge momentum. Why did it stop where it did? And what stopped it? Off topic, but daft ideas are fun.

 

[Rob44]

Ok, I think as long as there are blanket vaccinations available and that meet the accepted definitions and criteria, I will take them, rather than run the risk of not doing so.

Even if the effectiveness levels are doubted by some. If there is a degree of protection and it's my strong belief there is, I will back the vaccine makers based on what vaccinations have been able to achieve historically, and no doubt into the future.

Count the dead ferrets. At least the H5N1 vaccine works for them.

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

When the Universe moved past the apple it would have had huge momentum. Why did it stop where it did? And what stopped it? Off topic, but daft ideas are fun.

At times I have trouble working out sentences (have done all my life), so I'm not sure if you are talking about the universe or the apple stopping, where and what stopped it.

I choose to talk about the apple stopping, nothing daft about it.

So it's clear to me the apple stopped because someone wanted to eat it.
Where? at the restaurant at the end of the universe of course.
What stopped it: I think the hitch-hikers gob! or was it his short fat digit! The debate about which rages, still today, way beyond the ether.

Hang on a bit cos I think I'll need to load up the mushie bowl before I tackle the reasons why I think Newton got it right and why Einie's distortions in the shape of spacetime or the fabric thereof and or the expanding universe thingy don't really change Newton's fundamental principle!

 

[JimmyFlatrock]

Count the dead ferrets. At least the H5N1 vaccine works for them.

Yes, ferrets are smart and curious (there it is agin) beasties. Focussed on survival and not prone to be distracted or led down the garden path by conspiracy theories, preferring the wit of a good Robyn Williams movie over such.

 

[Rob44]

At times I have trouble working out sentences (have done all my life), so I'm not sure if you are talking about the universe or the apple stopping, where and what stopped it.

I choose to talk about the apple stopping, nothing daft about it.

So it's clear to me the apple stopped because someone wanted to eat it.
Where? at the restaurant at the end of the universe of course.
What stopped it: I think the hitch-hikers gob! or was it his short fat digit! The debate about which rages, still today, way beyond the ether.

Hang on a bit cos I think I'll need to load up the mushie bowl before I tackle the reasons why I think Newton got it right and why Einie's distortions in the shape of spacetime or the fabric thereof and or the expanding universe thingy don't really change Newton's fundamental principle!

Yes, I was speculating about the momentum of the universe and thus about what stopped it from moving past the apple. Perhaps Newton had a very strong skull and neck vertebrae, and his impact with the apple.......? However, back to boring old reality and the apple falling off the tree.