Frustrated with Centrelink call wait times? MP investigates why they're skyrocketing!

In the current economic climate, many Australians have become particularly financially vulnerable. The market is tough enough now, let alone if you’re retired or out of work and relying on Centrelink for vital support.

The government has already implemented specific measures to aid those who are struggling, such as the Jobseeker supplement, but unfortunately, many people still face challenges.

The call wait time is much higher now than it was prior to the global pandemic – and listening to an endless loop of repetitive music for a few extra minutes might be the difference between life and death in some situations.



But Casey MP Aaron Violi is determined to rectify this.

The local MP is taking action, launching an investigation and demanding answers from the federal government.

Recently, the cost-of-living crisis has spiked the need for welfare payments, making Centrelink an essential service needed now more than ever. However, this increasing demand has led to significant delays across the board.


centre1.jpg
A local MP investigates why Centrelink call times are skyrocketing. Credit: Shutterstock

During a senate hearing on 31 May, it was revealed that Centrelink call wait times had ballooned from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to a staggering 20 minutes in 2023.

Services Australia CEO Rebecca Skinner explained that until 31 March 2023, only 60.4 per cent of Centrelink customers were served within 15 minutes.



It has been revealed that the issue stems from a staff shortage available to answer all those ringing phones.

She highlighted that ‘the current staffing is about 400 under the average staffing level for this year’.

‘The cap is 28,560 ASL for the 2022-23 financial year, and we were at about 28,151 at the end of 30 March. We are just a bit higher than that now as we’ve entered the final part of the financial year,’ she continued.

In a report made earlier this year, Ms Skinner acknowledged that the increased demand for Centrelink services was also partly due to the changing economic circumstances.


centre2.jpg
Centrelink’s CEO acknowledged the issue. Credit: Shutterstock

Centrelink's Older Australians line, which can be reached at 132 300, has an average wait time of 24 minutes and 18 seconds as of December 31, 2022. You can read more on this here.



Mr Violi isn't taking this situation lightly. According to reports, he submitted questions to the Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten, requesting official data on wait times and how long it's taking for locals to get the help they need when they make a claim or visit a Centrelink office.

The questions will formally appear on the notice paper of the senate estimate hearing that’s happening on Tuesday, 13 June.

Mr Violi mentioned his experience with constituents: ‘I have met with constituents and regularly have calls to my office regarding Centrelink payment delays. Whether it be delays processing Youth Allowance, JobSeeker, delays in updating databases with new information or long periods on hold.’

It's crucial that Centrelink addresses this issue, especially amidst the cost-of-living crisis. Mr Violi applauded the hard work of the staff at Services Australia but emphasised the need for further data to identify how widespread these delays are and determine if additional resources are needed.

‘We simply cannot have people waiting weeks for a payment in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis,’ he stated.



Waiting for Centrelink payments can cause extreme hardship for many.

Tania Bevan, CEO of the Dandenong Ranges Emergency Relief Service (DRERS), a not-for-profit organisation assisting those facing crises, points out that ‘70 per cent [of people] are on Centrelink, 26 per cent have no income, and four per cent are on other income such as Workcover. Some of the 26 per cent are waiting for Centrelink payments to begin, so the numbers are high’.

‘I would like to see everyone eligible for Centrelink payments transition to receiving these payments as quickly as possible.’

Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, believes Australians deserve seamless, simple and safe service delivery from the government.

He stated: 'The federal government must ensure people are spending less time on the phone or in a queue at Centrelink and more time in a job.’

‘Unfortunately, Labor’s track record isn’t great – in February this year, it was revealed that over 2.1 million Australians chose to terminate a call rather than wait on the phone to Centrelink. But there also needs to be a strong focus on enhancing digital platforms like MyGov, so more Australians can access vital information at their fingertips,’ he added.
Key Takeaways
  • Centrelink call wait times have increased from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to 20 minutes in 2023.
  • Casey MP Aaron Violi is calling on the federal government to provide official data on call times and Centrelink office visits to determine the scope of the issue.
  • Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, emphasised the need for enhanced digital platforms like MyGov to improve access to essential information for Australians.
Have you dealt with the long call wait times when contacting Centrelink? Please share your experiences in the comments below.
 
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In the current economic climate, many Australians have become particularly financially vulnerable. The market is tough enough now, let alone if you’re retired or out of work and relying on Centrelink for vital support.

The government has already implemented specific measures to aid those who are struggling, such as the Jobseeker supplement, but unfortunately, many people still face challenges.

The call wait time is much higher now than it was prior to the global pandemic – and listening to an endless loop of repetitive music for a few extra minutes might be the difference between life and death in some situations.



But Casey MP Aaron Violi is determined to rectify this.

The local MP is taking action, launching an investigation and demanding answers from the federal government.

Recently, the cost-of-living crisis has spiked the need for welfare payments, making Centrelink an essential service needed now more than ever. However, this increasing demand has led to significant delays across the board.


View attachment 21898
A local MP investigates why Centrelink call times are skyrocketing. Credit: Shutterstock

During a senate hearing on 31 May, it was revealed that Centrelink call wait times had ballooned from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to a staggering 20 minutes in 2023.

Services Australia CEO Rebecca Skinner explained that until 31 March 2023, only 60.4 per cent of Centrelink customers were served within 15 minutes.



It has been revealed that the issue stems from a staff shortage available to answer all those ringing phones.

She highlighted that ‘the current staffing is about 400 under the average staffing level for this year’.

‘The cap is 28,560 ASL for the 2022-23 financial year, and we were at about 28,151 at the end of 30 March. We are just a bit higher than that now as we’ve entered the final part of the financial year,’ she continued.

In a report made earlier this year, Ms Skinner acknowledged that the increased demand for Centrelink services was also partly due to the changing economic circumstances.


View attachment 21899
Centrelink’s CEO acknowledged the issue. Credit: Shutterstock

Centrelink's Older Australians line, which can be reached at 132 300, has an average wait time of 24 minutes and 18 seconds as of December 31, 2022. You can read more on this here.



Mr Violi isn't taking this situation lightly. According to reports, he submitted questions to the Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten, requesting official data on wait times and how long it's taking for locals to get the help they need when they make a claim or visit a Centrelink office.

The questions will formally appear on the notice paper of the senate estimate hearing that’s happening on Tuesday, 13 June.

Mr Violi mentioned his experience with constituents: ‘I have met with constituents and regularly have calls to my office regarding Centrelink payment delays. Whether it be delays processing Youth Allowance, JobSeeker, delays in updating databases with new information or long periods on hold.’

It's crucial that Centrelink addresses this issue, especially amidst the cost-of-living crisis. Mr Violi applauded the hard work of the staff at Services Australia but emphasised the need for further data to identify how widespread these delays are and determine if additional resources are needed.

‘We simply cannot have people waiting weeks for a payment in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis,’ he stated.



Waiting for Centrelink payments can cause extreme hardship for many.

Tania Bevan, CEO of the Dandenong Ranges Emergency Relief Service (DRERS), a not-for-profit organisation assisting those facing crises, points out that ‘70 per cent [of people] are on Centrelink, 26 per cent have no income, and four per cent are on other income such as Workcover. Some of the 26 per cent are waiting for Centrelink payments to begin, so the numbers are high’.

‘I would like to see everyone eligible for Centrelink payments transition to receiving these payments as quickly as possible.’

Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, believes Australians deserve seamless, simple and safe service delivery from the government.

He stated: 'The federal government must ensure people are spending less time on the phone or in a queue at Centrelink and more time in a job.’

‘Unfortunately, Labor’s track record isn’t great – in February this year, it was revealed that over 2.1 million Australians chose to terminate a call rather than wait on the phone to Centrelink. But there also needs to be a strong focus on enhancing digital platforms like MyGov, so more Australians can access vital information at their fingertips,’ he added.
Key Takeaways

  • Centrelink call wait times have increased from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to 20 minutes in 2023.
  • Casey MP Aaron Violi is calling on the federal government to provide official data on call times and Centrelink office visits to determine the scope of the issue.
  • Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, emphasised the need for enhanced digital platforms like MyGov to improve access to essential information for Australians.
Have you dealt with the long call wait times when contacting Centrelink? Please share your experiences in the comments below.
The problem is much worse than this. When I moved house in 2022, Centrelink did not update their records, so I was denied a concession on my electric bill. Apparently, although I applied for one, AGL checked with Centrelink who "checked their records" and denied there were any pensioners at this address. Neither Centrelink nor AGL notified us or rectified their mistake.
 
For the Older Australian's line it is not just the wait time but they tell you they are too busy and to ring back later and then they hang up on you. I find this very insulting as well as F....cking annoying. Also if you ring back in one hour it recognizes that you have rang before and then tells you that things have not changed and hangs up again.
 
I needed to call centrelink 2 weeks ago . It was Friday morning and the recording said to call back as wait time was too long. I called back 1 hour later and the message said they could see that I had called previously but due to wait times I needed to call back at a later time.
This happened several times and I gave up.

I tried again first this Monday morning , thus time I got through but not before being on hold for 84 minutes.

I also needed to talk to my superfund and that was even worst than centrelink
 
In the current economic climate, many Australians have become particularly financially vulnerable. The market is tough enough now, let alone if you’re retired or out of work and relying on Centrelink for vital support.

The government has already implemented specific measures to aid those who are struggling, such as the Jobseeker supplement, but unfortunately, many people still face challenges.

The call wait time is much higher now than it was prior to the global pandemic – and listening to an endless loop of repetitive music for a few extra minutes might be the difference between life and death in some situations.



But Casey MP Aaron Violi is determined to rectify this.

The local MP is taking action, launching an investigation and demanding answers from the federal government.

Recently, the cost-of-living crisis has spiked the need for welfare payments, making Centrelink an essential service needed now more than ever. However, this increasing demand has led to significant delays across the board.


View attachment 21898
A local MP investigates why Centrelink call times are skyrocketing. Credit: Shutterstock

During a senate hearing on 31 May, it was revealed that Centrelink call wait times had ballooned from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to a staggering 20 minutes in 2023.

Services Australia CEO Rebecca Skinner explained that until 31 March 2023, only 60.4 per cent of Centrelink customers were served within 15 minutes.



It has been revealed that the issue stems from a staff shortage available to answer all those ringing phones.

She highlighted that ‘the current staffing is about 400 under the average staffing level for this year’.

‘The cap is 28,560 ASL for the 2022-23 financial year, and we were at about 28,151 at the end of 30 March. We are just a bit higher than that now as we’ve entered the final part of the financial year,’ she continued.

In a report made earlier this year, Ms Skinner acknowledged that the increased demand for Centrelink services was also partly due to the changing economic circumstances.


View attachment 21899
Centrelink’s CEO acknowledged the issue. Credit: Shutterstock

Centrelink's Older Australians line, which can be reached at 132 300, has an average wait time of 24 minutes and 18 seconds as of December 31, 2022. You can read more on this here.



Mr Violi isn't taking this situation lightly. According to reports, he submitted questions to the Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten, requesting official data on wait times and how long it's taking for locals to get the help they need when they make a claim or visit a Centrelink office.

The questions will formally appear on the notice paper of the senate estimate hearing that’s happening on Tuesday, 13 June.

Mr Violi mentioned his experience with constituents: ‘I have met with constituents and regularly have calls to my office regarding Centrelink payment delays. Whether it be delays processing Youth Allowance, JobSeeker, delays in updating databases with new information or long periods on hold.’

It's crucial that Centrelink addresses this issue, especially amidst the cost-of-living crisis. Mr Violi applauded the hard work of the staff at Services Australia but emphasised the need for further data to identify how widespread these delays are and determine if additional resources are needed.

‘We simply cannot have people waiting weeks for a payment in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis,’ he stated.



Waiting for Centrelink payments can cause extreme hardship for many.

Tania Bevan, CEO of the Dandenong Ranges Emergency Relief Service (DRERS), a not-for-profit organisation assisting those facing crises, points out that ‘70 per cent [of people] are on Centrelink, 26 per cent have no income, and four per cent are on other income such as Workcover. Some of the 26 per cent are waiting for Centrelink payments to begin, so the numbers are high’.

‘I would like to see everyone eligible for Centrelink payments transition to receiving these payments as quickly as possible.’

Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, believes Australians deserve seamless, simple and safe service delivery from the government.

He stated: 'The federal government must ensure people are spending less time on the phone or in a queue at Centrelink and more time in a job.’

‘Unfortunately, Labor’s track record isn’t great – in February this year, it was revealed that over 2.1 million Australians chose to terminate a call rather than wait on the phone to Centrelink. But there also needs to be a strong focus on enhancing digital platforms like MyGov, so more Australians can access vital information at their fingertips,’ he added.
Key Takeaways

  • Centrelink call wait times have increased from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to 20 minutes in 2023.
  • Casey MP Aaron Violi is calling on the federal government to provide official data on call times and Centrelink office visits to determine the scope of the issue.
  • Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, emphasised the need for enhanced digital platforms like MyGov to improve access to essential information for Australians.
Have you dealt with the long call wait times when contacting Centrelink? Please share your experiences in the comments below.
I waited for 2 and a half hours yesterday just to tell them that my medical certificate has been up loaded I'm 65yrs old and can't stand listening to the music they play while waiting
 
I try to avoid ringing Centrelink, I agree, wait times are an hour or longer. I prefer to go in person, seems more proactive to talk to someone face to face. A most frustrating organisation to have to deal with.
Recently my nephew had a new baby plus 2 young children. He was on parental leave with no money coming through from Centrelink for weeks. The whole family went in to explain their situation and it still took weeks for them to get a payment. Not even any money for food. Disgraceful!!
 
In the current economic climate, many Australians have become particularly financially vulnerable. The market is tough enough now, let alone if you’re retired or out of work and relying on Centrelink for vital support.

The government has already implemented specific measures to aid those who are struggling, such as the Jobseeker supplement, but unfortunately, many people still face challenges.

The call wait time is much higher now than it was prior to the global pandemic – and listening to an endless loop of repetitive music for a few extra minutes might be the difference between life and death in some situations.



But Casey MP Aaron Violi is determined to rectify this.

The local MP is taking action, launching an investigation and demanding answers from the federal government.

Recently, the cost-of-living crisis has spiked the need for welfare payments, making Centrelink an essential service needed now more than ever. However, this increasing demand has led to significant delays across the board.


View attachment 21898
A local MP investigates why Centrelink call times are skyrocketing. Credit: Shutterstock

During a senate hearing on 31 May, it was revealed that Centrelink call wait times had ballooned from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to a staggering 20 minutes in 2023.

Services Australia CEO Rebecca Skinner explained that until 31 March 2023, only 60.4 per cent of Centrelink customers were served within 15 minutes.



It has been revealed that the issue stems from a staff shortage available to answer all those ringing phones.

She highlighted that ‘the current staffing is about 400 under the average staffing level for this year’.

‘The cap is 28,560 ASL for the 2022-23 financial year, and we were at about 28,151 at the end of 30 March. We are just a bit higher than that now as we’ve entered the final part of the financial year,’ she continued.

In a report made earlier this year, Ms Skinner acknowledged that the increased demand for Centrelink services was also partly due to the changing economic circumstances.


View attachment 21899
Centrelink’s CEO acknowledged the issue. Credit: Shutterstock

Centrelink's Older Australians line, which can be reached at 132 300, has an average wait time of 24 minutes and 18 seconds as of December 31, 2022. You can read more on this here.



Mr Violi isn't taking this situation lightly. According to reports, he submitted questions to the Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten, requesting official data on wait times and how long it's taking for locals to get the help they need when they make a claim or visit a Centrelink office.

The questions will formally appear on the notice paper of the senate estimate hearing that’s happening on Tuesday, 13 June.

Mr Violi mentioned his experience with constituents: ‘I have met with constituents and regularly have calls to my office regarding Centrelink payment delays. Whether it be delays processing Youth Allowance, JobSeeker, delays in updating databases with new information or long periods on hold.’

It's crucial that Centrelink addresses this issue, especially amidst the cost-of-living crisis. Mr Violi applauded the hard work of the staff at Services Australia but emphasised the need for further data to identify how widespread these delays are and determine if additional resources are needed.

‘We simply cannot have people waiting weeks for a payment in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis,’ he stated.



Waiting for Centrelink payments can cause extreme hardship for many.

Tania Bevan, CEO of the Dandenong Ranges Emergency Relief Service (DRERS), a not-for-profit organisation assisting those facing crises, points out that ‘70 per cent [of people] are on Centrelink, 26 per cent have no income, and four per cent are on other income such as Workcover. Some of the 26 per cent are waiting for Centrelink payments to begin, so the numbers are high’.

‘I would like to see everyone eligible for Centrelink payments transition to receiving these payments as quickly as possible.’

Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, believes Australians deserve seamless, simple and safe service delivery from the government.

He stated: 'The federal government must ensure people are spending less time on the phone or in a queue at Centrelink and more time in a job.’

‘Unfortunately, Labor’s track record isn’t great – in February this year, it was revealed that over 2.1 million Australians chose to terminate a call rather than wait on the phone to Centrelink. But there also needs to be a strong focus on enhancing digital platforms like MyGov, so more Australians can access vital information at their fingertips,’ he added.
Key Takeaways

  • Centrelink call wait times have increased from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to 20 minutes in 2023.
  • Casey MP Aaron Violi is calling on the federal government to provide official data on call times and Centrelink office visits to determine the scope of the issue.
  • Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, emphasised the need for enhanced digital platforms like MyGov to improve access to essential information for Australians.
Have you dealt with the long call wait times when contacting Centrelink? Please share your experiences in the comments below.
We have waited more often than not over 2 and a half hours to speak to someone. Doesn’t matter what time of day it is. Never ever have we been answered in the time stated in this article. It is disgustin!
 
I worked for the old Department of Social Security and people need to be aware of the workload of staff.
I know it's a big joke to rubbish public servants but I used to tell people to sit at my desk for a week to see my work output. Also, since COVID so many staff are inexperienced and the offices are so fragmented that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing
 
My ex was on the Seniors phone line for 1hour and 12 minutes last week. Only to find out that after seven months his application for living separately had not even been looked at.
 
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My ex was on the Seniors phone line for 1hour and 12 minutes last week. Only to find out that after seven months his application for living separately had not even been looked at.
I've been waiting for an assessment for over 3 months now
 
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Waiting times sound fudged and not statistically accurate
Have never known wait times to be that low
This maybe on times that calls are actually answered and not on all the hang ups and call backs etc
Don’t think I have called in recent times to not get the message “we are experiencing higher than normal wait times “
I am so thankful that I finally got disability pension so don’t any longer have to have contact with Centrelink which was invariably retraumatising for me
 
Have I not read the article properly? It was about waiting times on the phone. So my reply stands as when phoning Centrelink I have never got through in the times stated. I have been to Centrelink in person and the queues are long and when you get to see someone they give you forms to fill in and send you away. You go back and wait again only to be told that they were the wrong forms and to fill out another set. Centrelink is an uncaring, depressing office full of people who don’t know their jobs. They never agree with each other.
 
Have I not read the article properly? It was about waiting times on the phone. So my reply stands as when phoning Centrelink I have never got through in the times stated. I have been to Centrelink in person and the queues are long and when you get to see someone they give you forms to fill in and send you away. You go back and wait again only to be told that they were the wrong forms and to fill out another set. Centrelink is an uncaring, depressing office full of people who don’t know their jobs. They never agree with each other.
I was in the same situation my daughter has to time off work to take me all the time cos I don't drive
 
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In the current economic climate, many Australians have become particularly financially vulnerable. The market is tough enough now, let alone if you’re retired or out of work and relying on Centrelink for vital support.

The government has already implemented specific measures to aid those who are struggling, such as the Jobseeker supplement, but unfortunately, many people still face challenges.

The call wait time is much higher now than it was prior to the global pandemic – and listening to an endless loop of repetitive music for a few extra minutes might be the difference between life and death in some situations.



But Casey MP Aaron Violi is determined to rectify this.

The local MP is taking action, launching an investigation and demanding answers from the federal government.

Recently, the cost-of-living crisis has spiked the need for welfare payments, making Centrelink an essential service needed now more than ever. However, this increasing demand has led to significant delays across the board.


View attachment 21898
A local MP investigates why Centrelink call times are skyrocketing. Credit: Shutterstock

During a senate hearing on 31 May, it was revealed that Centrelink call wait times had ballooned from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to a staggering 20 minutes in 2023.

Services Australia CEO Rebecca Skinner explained that until 31 March 2023, only 60.4 per cent of Centrelink customers were served within 15 minutes.



It has been revealed that the issue stems from a staff shortage available to answer all those ringing phones.

She highlighted that ‘the current staffing is about 400 under the average staffing level for this year’.

‘The cap is 28,560 ASL for the 2022-23 financial year, and we were at about 28,151 at the end of 30 March. We are just a bit higher than that now as we’ve entered the final part of the financial year,’ she continued.

In a report made earlier this year, Ms Skinner acknowledged that the increased demand for Centrelink services was also partly due to the changing economic circumstances.


View attachment 21899
Centrelink’s CEO acknowledged the issue. Credit: Shutterstock

Centrelink's Older Australians line, which can be reached at 132 300, has an average wait time of 24 minutes and 18 seconds as of December 31, 2022. You can read more on this here.



Mr Violi isn't taking this situation lightly. According to reports, he submitted questions to the Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten, requesting official data on wait times and how long it's taking for locals to get the help they need when they make a claim or visit a Centrelink office.

The questions will formally appear on the notice paper of the senate estimate hearing that’s happening on Tuesday, 13 June.

Mr Violi mentioned his experience with constituents: ‘I have met with constituents and regularly have calls to my office regarding Centrelink payment delays. Whether it be delays processing Youth Allowance, JobSeeker, delays in updating databases with new information or long periods on hold.’

It's crucial that Centrelink addresses this issue, especially amidst the cost-of-living crisis. Mr Violi applauded the hard work of the staff at Services Australia but emphasised the need for further data to identify how widespread these delays are and determine if additional resources are needed.

‘We simply cannot have people waiting weeks for a payment in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis,’ he stated.



Waiting for Centrelink payments can cause extreme hardship for many.

Tania Bevan, CEO of the Dandenong Ranges Emergency Relief Service (DRERS), a not-for-profit organisation assisting those facing crises, points out that ‘70 per cent [of people] are on Centrelink, 26 per cent have no income, and four per cent are on other income such as Workcover. Some of the 26 per cent are waiting for Centrelink payments to begin, so the numbers are high’.

‘I would like to see everyone eligible for Centrelink payments transition to receiving these payments as quickly as possible.’

Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, believes Australians deserve seamless, simple and safe service delivery from the government.

He stated: 'The federal government must ensure people are spending less time on the phone or in a queue at Centrelink and more time in a job.’

‘Unfortunately, Labor’s track record isn’t great – in February this year, it was revealed that over 2.1 million Australians chose to terminate a call rather than wait on the phone to Centrelink. But there also needs to be a strong focus on enhancing digital platforms like MyGov, so more Australians can access vital information at their fingertips,’ he added.
Key Takeaways

  • Centrelink call wait times have increased from an average of 14 minutes in 2021 to 2022 to 20 minutes in 2023.
  • Casey MP Aaron Violi is calling on the federal government to provide official data on call times and Centrelink office visits to determine the scope of the issue.
  • Shadow Minister for Government Services, Paul Fletcher, emphasised the need for enhanced digital platforms like MyGov to improve access to essential information for Australians.
Have you dealt with the long call wait times when contacting Centrelink? Please share your experiences in the comments below.
Yes it's always that way trying to talk to Centrelink. The only way that I know to get answers is going up there myself (at a time it's not usually busy) and waiting to see a Centrelink person. If you didn't live near one though, it would be long waits on the phone all the time. This is obviously a staff shortage, as is the staffing at the Centres, and should be addressed urgently. People vote with their feelings for the present Party, and it will affect that Party's votes for sure. Maybe they should be made to see this?
 
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